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Post by sh3lby on Aug 14, 2006 1:55:23 GMT -4
alright. Being that I ref'd my first game this season. I had to pull a lil rank and decide what classifies a man bunt in my game.
Being as I'm always chasing after bunts.. I decided that any ground ball that does not look or flat out does not make it past the base line / 1st / 3rd base line thingo is a bunt.
Is my reasoning wrong? grant it, it didn't pull the game here or there, it still could very well happen where it could. So we need to lay down some guidelines before it gets that far.
What is considered a man bunt. I know some man's kicks can be just plain awful. say, they wind up to kick and kick but only grab the top of the ball and it rolls 3' in front of home plate. what would that be? hmm.. it's like 2 am.. why am I wondering this!!!!! I should be sleeping! but this is what keeps me from sleeping.. these things =p
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Post by Scottyg on Aug 14, 2006 9:13:14 GMT -4
Its a tough call because there is a really gray area. Usually I look for a good windup and strong kick, anytime the kicker slows down there leg and catches the ball with their heel I'm probably going to call it. I lucked out and the one close call I had reffing HFB went foul, but we had some really close ones in our game against Silent Attack that were pretty light hits but still went kind of deep in the infield...tough call.
Anytime they wind up and kick the ball hard but top it off/shank it I'll let it go, its a really poor kick but by no means an intentional bunt. If down the road someone can perfect a way to crush the ball and have it be a bunt every time we can revisit that one.
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Post by Teerizz on Aug 14, 2006 10:31:17 GMT -4
Its definitely up to the ref to decide what a man bunt is.
Muffed kicks I would not call "man bunts" and just let play continue.
I think you did well reffing.
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Post by girlscantell on Aug 14, 2006 10:55:00 GMT -4
This is totally why I voted against banning the man bunt. Too open to interpretation.
But Justin did a fab job reffing yesterday so it's all good.
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Aug 14, 2006 11:04:30 GMT -4
This is totally why I voted against banning the man bunt. Too open to interpretation. But Justin did a fab job reffing yesterday so it's all good. I'm right there with ya Kate. I think Troy wrapped it up nicely. We talked alot about "intent" and not about anything else. Flubbed kicks happen and I think they're usually about 90% obvious. But I wouldn't call everything that lands before the 1st/3rd line a bunt. Justin, I'm sure you did just fine with calling manbunts vs. flubbed kicks. It's not like you're a rookie ref. It is not an easy call to make when there's really a lot of responsibility put on the ref. The only possible manbunt we've had this season was in the game against the Outsiders and I ended up catching it anyway. So far, as much as I hate the rule, I think our men are doing rather well with it and the refs are being fair about it... Now if I could just get the first basepeople to keep out of the way of my baseline runners...
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Dagger
Captain
Go Wackos Go!
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dagger on Aug 14, 2006 11:27:21 GMT -4
Complain at our rookies Patrick. Class move.
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Aug 14, 2006 11:46:09 GMT -4
Complain at our rookies Patrick. Class move. Hey Marvie, it's not just your team. It's everyone... remember last season our solution was a second 1st base...
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Post by Scottyg on Aug 14, 2006 12:03:04 GMT -4
I like the lack of a manbunt, its nice to see the outfielders getting to do something other than nurse their hangovers.
I was a fan of the second plate on first.
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Aug 14, 2006 12:11:01 GMT -4
I like the lack of a manbunt, its nice to see the outfielders getting to do something other than nurse their hangovers. Yeah, I actually have to worry about who we put where in the outfield now. I can't just put bodies out there anymore. We've had to make sure everyone gets some catching practice out there. But I think with the vets and the rookies working together, it's paying off. I'm still torn on it, but again, I think no one should be allowed to bunt not just the men. We really never took a lot of advantage of the bunt to begin with, but it still has taken some reworking of strategery on our part. Practicing is paying off in that regard. But overall, I think I'd support no bunting if it's successful the rest of the season. I was a fan of the second plate on first. Well, ya know how I feel about dat so no need to comment...
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Post by kickballplaya on Aug 14, 2006 14:44:57 GMT -4
"Now if I could just get the first basepeople to keep out of the way of my baseline runners..."
Hmmmmmmmm, sounds like the "second" first base wasn't such a bad idea last season!?!? Should we bring it back?
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Post by Teerizz on Aug 14, 2006 14:55:36 GMT -4
No bunting would be too hard to interpret. I mean no offense to the ladies at all....but I'd say the good majority of the ladies' kicks look like bunts to me.....hence why I to voted to keep ALL bunting.
I still would veto the 2nd 1st base. It is the runner's and fielders responsibilities to provide each other with room to make plays. Runners need to learn that they cannot always run in a straight line. Fielders need to learn to step off the base to get overthrown balls and not try to stretch so much.
Or....if you can't take being tackled at first....don't play first. It WILL happen sometimes. And no one does it on purpose...I assume. And this goes for everyone. I've seen guys knocked down by girls, guys by guys, girls by guys, etc. What's next....double 2nd, 3rd and home plates? I've slid into bases plenty of times and had people fall on me. Its part of the game.
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Post by Teerizz on Aug 14, 2006 14:57:24 GMT -4
Oh....and one other thing....in all the games I saw, people rarely used the 2nd 1st base anyways...runners or fielders alike. Even in my softball league, we tried this and no one abided by it. Its a good idea in theory, but it didn't seem to improve play, lower collisions....in my eyes of course.
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Dagger
Captain
Go Wackos Go!
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dagger on Aug 14, 2006 15:05:10 GMT -4
Should we look into buying more real bases? Or buying a set and have each field have a raised first base?
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Post by Scottyg on Aug 14, 2006 15:07:12 GMT -4
I think the throws to first tend to be less accurate depending on where they are coming from (being dead on with a quick throw for the shortstop is tough) and you have to allow that the first baseman has a right to make a play for the ball, even if it carries him/her into the basepath.
Of course work with the newbies to be sure people arent covering the bag should be done as well.
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Post by sh3lby on Aug 14, 2006 15:12:22 GMT -4
hmm.. isn't it true that if a fielder interferes with a runner the runner is safe?
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