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Post by aspey on Apr 23, 2007 12:39:31 GMT -4
I now realize this was a clarification that was left off of the commonly miscalled rules list, but was cleared up sometime last season.
A situation occurred in Below Us vs. Flame On where Below Us had a runner going from 2nd to 3rd, but the 3rd base runner didn't try to go home. The pitcher received the ball while 3rd was on the bag, but 2nd was in the middle of the baseline freaking out. Eventually the 3rd base runner went home and 2nd went to 3rd. Incidentally, the pitcher made a play to home but was a second or two late.
Since WAKA's rule here is (again) pretty vague... for a play to end, the pitcher must have the ball on the mound and all runners must be on base.
The reasoning is that in the above situation, the 2nd base runner was still vulnerable and could have been tagged out had the fielding team noticed he was in a pickle (just like if he had overrun 2nd).
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d
Kicker
*roar*
Posts: 213
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Post by d on Apr 23, 2007 12:58:52 GMT -4
tough call here. i agree that if the guy on second base is in that pickle, then the guy on third has a right to break for home. pitcher should have made the out though
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Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 13:28:27 GMT -4
I would say that the runner in the pickle would have to go back to 2nd, if the pitcher decides to not try and make a play. Once the pitcher decides to make a play, then its open for the guy on third to advance. That is the point of the pitcher having the ball, so runners can't advance.
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Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 13:38:12 GMT -4
Id agree with Troy, runner has to return to 2nd IF the 3rd base runner is on the base and the pitcher has the ball within the designated area. Once the pitcher makes a play for the player returning to 2nd...3rd base is free to make an attempt for home.
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d
Kicker
*roar*
Posts: 213
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Post by d on Apr 23, 2007 14:02:48 GMT -4
if i am a step off of second and the pitcher has the ball, do i have a right to try and instigate him into doing something stupid to try and bring the guy on third home? pitcher instigation seems quite ambiguous.
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Apr 23, 2007 14:04:46 GMT -4
I would say that the runner in the pickle would have to go back to 2nd, if the pitcher decides to not try and make a play. Once the pitcher decides to make a play, then its open for the guy on third to advance. That is the point of the pitcher having the ball, so runners can't advance. That was exactly the point that was made yesterday, but the call was made in the other direction. I had the ball on the mound and the player at third decided NOT to go for home. It wasn't until Jesse yelled at the guy on THIRD to move that got things all screwed up. At that point I had to decide to either bitch and moan or make a late attempt to get the runner heading for home out. Next time I'll just bitch and moan...
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Apr 23, 2007 14:11:00 GMT -4
if i am a step off of second and the pitcher has the ball, do i have a right to try and instigate him into doing something stupid to try and bring the guy on third home? pitcher instigation seems quite ambiguous. That's a good question. My initial thought would be 'no' because play has ended. Since we are not allowed to steal bases and there's no pre-emptive ways to toss people out for leading bases, it seems moot to taunt the pitcher...
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Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 14:20:57 GMT -4
anyone that knows how to run bases, and lets be honest the ones that are attempting to take extra bases do know how to, has a point where they are either going to go, or are not. They are either going all out for the next base or hesitating to see where the ball is.
Once you hesitate and see the ball at the pitcher, you should be heading back to the base you just left, unless of course the pitcher makes a play at you.
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Post by aspey on Apr 23, 2007 14:37:34 GMT -4
Once you hesitate and see the ball at the pitcher, you should be heading back to the base you just left, unless of course the pitcher makes a play at you. If you can still be thrown at, then the play is still live and the runner can still go. It can't be 1/2 and 1/2.
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Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 14:40:08 GMT -4
Once the pitcher has the ball, the runner needs to go back. And if he doesn't, then the pitcher should pitch the ball. I think there's a rule that says if a player is not on their designated base when the ball is pitched, they are out.
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Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 14:45:52 GMT -4
In response to Taylor....from what I am hearing...it didn't sound like the runner could advance any further since the base was already occupied and can only be occupied by one player at a time. Since the guy on third was on the base, and the pitcher had the ball on the mound, he shouldn't allowed to go anywhere.
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Post by aspey on Apr 23, 2007 14:58:11 GMT -4
It was more one of those situations of mass confusion -- definitely not "baiting" the pitcher. The runner going from 2nd to 3rd was over 1/2 way to third and in full run. He was taken totally by surprise that the runner at 3rd hadn't left yet. The runner on 3rd was off and on and off and on of 3rd since he was completely confused.
Troy, as for your suggestion, the pitcher can't pitch the next pitch until the existing play is dead, so that doesn't really work. The play can't be dead with a runner in limbo. Considering a runner can still leave the bag while the throw to the pitcher is in the air, there's no reason they should have to walk back to the base once the pitcher catches it.
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Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 15:16:48 GMT -4
Ever get the feeling we might be overanalyzing...kickball?
If the pitcher has the ball and the runner is caught between bases, with someone on the base in front of them, pitcher patiently let them get back to the base they left....if you attempt to make a play any resulting errors are your own fault. Runners dont be an ass, you dont have 3rd, go back to second.
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Post by Rodeo Jock on Apr 23, 2007 15:38:48 GMT -4
Ever get the feeling we might be overanalyzing...kickball? Every time I step onto the field... If the pitcher has the ball and the runner is caught between bases, with someone on the base in front of them, pitcher patiently let them get back to the base they left....if you attempt to make a play any resulting errors are your own fault. Runners don't be an ass, you don't have 3rd, go back to second. I would agree, but it's exactly as Taylor said in his recent post that I and my team felt that it was important to make a play. If I didn't throw the ball to home, it would have been two runs versus just the one that got by... continue the play and disagree when things were completed.
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Post by walshmobile on Apr 23, 2007 15:48:32 GMT -4
What is "over analyzing?"
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