|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 11:09:46 GMT -4
Scenario: D-Balls - 6 Bag Em - 1 Bootom of the 5th inning 1 Out D-Balls are fielding while Bag Em is kicking Runners at 1st and 2nd Base
Ball is kicked to CF. 2nd Baser Runner yells, "I GOT IT." Chris, the CF, does not catch the ball. Runners at 1st and 2nd Base Score after play continues. Kicker advances to 3rd base.
Play ends. Argument ensues.
|
|
|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 11:15:37 GMT -4
I was reffing third base.
Chris, the CF, came running for the ball and did appear to slow down after the "I GOT IT" was shouted out by the runner on 2nd base.
However, Chris was by no means going to catch the ball in the air. Again, I talked to Chris after the game and he did tell me he was not going to be able to catch the ball in the air. Now, hopefully he told me the same thing he told his D-Ball teammates.
If he isn't going to catch the ball, where's the intereference?
Chris probably would have been able to prevent Bag Em from scoring 1 of the 2 runs by getting to the ball sooner and getting it back to the pitcher. But actually attaining an out in any means, I don't believe so.
That is my take on the situation.
|
|
|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 11:16:49 GMT -4
The result was this, made by the Head Ref of the game, Sammy or Sammie, from Dark Green, Your Mom Goes to College (I think):
The two runs scored.
The runner that was on third was called out.
|
|
|
Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 11:30:04 GMT -4
I think the call is at the discretion of the Head Ref...unfortunately in this case it seemed to be a newbie, but isnt that always the way it goes.
Previous situationst that I've seen involved much closer plays and obvious hesitation from a player that could field the ball. I'd still be inclined to call the runner out based on the fact that its poor sportsmanship, but at the least I'd stop play with all runners advancing one base.
I know we hate to leave these calls up to the head ref, but after this happening once or twice it doesnt sound like people will be trying it....word is the Bag Em Player got an earful.
|
|
d
Kicker
*roar*
Posts: 213
|
Post by d on Apr 23, 2007 11:33:48 GMT -4
we did discuss that this is not allowed at the rules clinic, correct?
it's a subjective situation.
after the runner interferes, he/she should be called out immediately, but then what? you can- 1. deadball. everyone goes back to their original bases, kicker is kicked to again with previous count. 2. deadball. everyone proceeds to the base they were running to, kicker goes to first. 3. continue play, with the remaining runners/kicker allowed to freely run.
|
|
d
Kicker
*roar*
Posts: 213
|
Post by d on Apr 23, 2007 11:37:00 GMT -4
i think for intentional interference, nothing should be awarded to the offending team, and that the kicker should go back to the plate to rekick. take an extreme example of a runner actively taking the ball and kicking it into the outfield. there is no way that anyone else should be allowed to advance after this.
|
|
|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 11:40:44 GMT -4
The other thing, maybe I'm just not finding it in the rules....Where does it say that someone doing something unsportsmanlike is called "OUT", the play ends, and its a re-kick??
The interference rule 15.04 has to do with the ball touching something. The fielder / runner interference rule 10.02 does not make any mention of verbal distractions, hinderances, interfenences. And the sportmanship /spirit of the game rule 18.01 does not say anything about outs.
Is this something we came up with as a result of the Sensations / Wackos game? Please just point it out to me, as I hate reading and may have overlooked it.
|
|
|
Post by walshmobile on Apr 23, 2007 11:41:39 GMT -4
well problem with comparison of those kinds of situations is that we know the runner will already be out for touching the ball, but I agree that offenders shouldn't benefit.
edit: oops, troy got a post in before me, but I'm talking about d's comparison
|
|
|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 11:43:07 GMT -4
In response to Andy, I do believe there is a rule against that actually. 15.02 says that if a runner not on base intentionally touches or stops the ball, the play is over and the runner is out.
There's no Cajun Kickball Rules out here!!
|
|
|
Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 11:45:14 GMT -4
No I think this is where the problem lies, its more of a refs making an extension of the contact rule and unsportmanlike conduct, but its not expressly written in there.
I agree with Andy, if you want to be unsportsmanlike in kickball, then you get out and no advance...sucks for a kicker that has a nice hit, and I would leave it up to head ref to make the call on if runners can advance...but you'll learn not to do it pretty quick if you get penalized.
If we cant come to a conclusion on here, I think Justin or Donnie have emails to the higher ups, and/or we could post the question on kickball365 and let the kickball "elite" have a shot at it.
|
|
|
Post by aspey on Apr 23, 2007 12:27:09 GMT -4
It's interference by the runner, plain and simple. Physical contact is not required. He interfered with the player attempting to make the catch by "calling him off" so to speak.
To clarify, a fielder WAS attempting to make a play on the ball, even if it was unlikely it would be successful. It was also stated that a run may have been prevented by throwing to home sooner had the fielder not slowed down -- thus interference occurred.
The only part that's really up in the air is what to do with the other runners as has been stated. In this case, I'd say the most applicable rule is the generic interference rule (ref, player-on-base, or non-permanent object = runners advance), since that is what would have likely happened had interference not occurred. It seems too much of a stretch to use the rule where a runner kicks the ball to the outfield = runners return to original base. But that's more head-ref opinion for that part.
|
|
|
Post by Scottyg on Apr 23, 2007 12:54:02 GMT -4
How about this, all captains remind their teams that calling for a ball as a baserunner will result in you being out/ridiculed, and we err on the side of Dead Ball/replay because the players have been warned.
|
|
|
Post by Teerizz on Apr 23, 2007 13:43:16 GMT -4
It was also stated that a run may have been prevented by throwing to home sooner had the fielder not slowed down -- thus interference occurred. I don't think this is interference, as its only a prediction. You can't can interference on something that might be prevented. The catching of the ball in the air issue, that could definitely be associated with interference now. My question is, how do we limit this? If someone not playing at the moment, whether its a fan or player on the sidelines, does this same thing....who's at fault? Who's "out"? Also, is this just limited to "calling people off" by saying "I got it" or something close to that? Can they just scream aloud? And what is to be done about catchers that harass and talk to kickers? What will be the penalty there?
|
|
|
Post by wellindowd on Apr 23, 2007 13:44:40 GMT -4
Below is MLB definition of interference. Part of the definition is an act that confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. I don't have the kickball rules in front of me, but I think they say interference and not physical interference. So assuming baseball rules have anything to do with this, this "I got it" situation is interference, if the head ref judges so. Also, note that on any interference, the ball is dead and all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference.
INTERFERENCE (a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter- runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules. Rule 2.00 (Interference) Comment: In the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch. (b) Defensive interference is an act by a fielder which hinders or prevents a batter from hitting a pitch. (c) Umpire’s interference occurs (1) When an umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base, or (2) When a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder. (d) Spectator interference occurs when a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field, and touches a live ball. On any interference the ball is dead.
|
|
|
Post by Rodeo Jock on Apr 23, 2007 13:58:20 GMT -4
i think for intentional interference, nothing should be awarded to the offending team, and that the kicker should go back to the plate to rekick. take an extreme example of a runner actively taking the ball and kicking it into the outfield. there is no way that anyone else should be allowed to advance after this. I agree with you here. The outcome shouldn't be up to the ref to decide. Who knows, Chris has long enough legs that without that instant of hesitation, he could have run fast enough and then made a diving catch. (of course with the damaged pinky that's unlikely... ) The fact is the unsportsmanlike conduct broke the rule and the offending team should not benefit from his lack of concern for (or ignorance of) the rules. And I'm glad that BE&TE took charge and reprimanded their own teammate as well. I've been very impressed with how teams have been handling these issues.
|
|